Pb: Master, can you say something about the difference between our love for you and your love for us?

We love according to our own measure,
but love that lives in Eternity loves truly.

Love is a giving that knows no receiving;
it is a fullness and an abundance.
It is a self-offering:
when you offer to the other you offer to your own Self.
In that, both the lover and the beloved are free.
And therein is true reverence
for it comes of the Spirit –
and there is no one more reverent than the Spirit itself.

I went this morning to Apsara Vihar –
pools of water, cascading water and streams,
then a waterfall and a big pool – beautiful…
There was reverence there;
there was love for the place,
the pools, the water, the wilderness.
And then, there was all this litter –
and in that litter there was no reverence.

There are many who go there,
many who litter.
For to them love is utility;
it is not love, it is not reverence –
it is use and abuse.

It is when we see our own Self
in all things everywhere,
then you can truly love,
and there is no litter.
Then there is no utility, but a giving;
not convenience, but a fullness and a delight.
And yet until such time we will continue to litter…

And life would be forgiven those transgressions
if it were to look at itself in self-enquiry,
and thereby bring about the self-unfolding.
Therein is the self-discovery,
the self-recovery.

(P. recounts an experience of physical discomfort that caused him to leave the meditation hall last night)

There were two parts of you,
so therefore there was conflict.
But you could be free of both –
and then you could have stayed, or gone,
and you would have been free.

It is an opening,
freedom is an immense opening;
it frees you from these ‘becomings’.
And then you could have stayed or you could have gone –
or you could have come back later as you did…
I got the sense of it at that time.

P: I did try to watch it…

You have to dig deeper in your heart,
get behind the movement,
be really watchful of what is happening…
And then you could from that point go also.
That is allowed you – no obligations.
But therein must be no conceit either –
and that is where the subtlety of what I am saying is.

When you move, when you get up,
you must be able to stand behind
this experience of ‘torture’ or whatever…
and then go, observing it all the way.
That would ultimately, progressively bring about the opening.

It may not immediately happen,
but when you are observing yourself,
standing behind,
increasingly it will be
that you find this freedom from all that.
And this is how it must be all the time,
with all your actions, your movements –
because you will continue to make them.

You could have stayed and continued to stay,
maybe it will have overcome you, overwhelmed you,
and then you would have had to go.
But the idea is to always be behind it –
and then go with it, watching it all the time.
Progressively you will be freer of it,
and so also of all movements.

True freedom lives beyond suppression and expression;
it is in-between and beyond.
And it is then that you can bring about the change
and the right expression.
Until such time there will be struggle.
So it is progressive.

P: Somehow I am here for this progress. To create a bigger distance between my habits and the Watcher – that is what I am here for. Sitting for me is part of that work…

That is when you start to understand the mind…

The clarity comes increasingly as you step back
and get into this (laughing¬) ‘habit’ of watching…!
But really when you find the Being,
then it is not a ‘habit,’ it is just Being –
and you observe everything in freedom.

P: I really want to find that Being!

Can you poise yourself in the heart?
Not ‘focus’ – you have to stand poised there.

Just be aware of yourself now.

Now within that awareness
can you find a center where you are at?
You are there? Okay.

It is a center,
but you also have this Awareness
that is open, space-like, Aware –
and yet you have a center.
Now from that center can you observe
if there is a thought in the mind
or even if there are aches and pains or whatever?

Can you stay there all the time?
And then from there can you observe
whatever would rise and pass away?
And then from there you would go into action also,
but that action would be in freedom.

Then you could go –
you would not have to sneak away,
because you would go in dignity.

And yet there would be no conceit,
but a giving…

Therein would be affection…

You can try it for some time and see what happens.

And then you could just keep going deeper.
It just opens out,
and the profundity of the Self unfolds for you
as it deepens…

And you could pressurize that center also,
and it would open out.

Remember on our way we stopped at a point
where I was showing you some stone ‘carvings,’
natural carvings,
and I said, ‘Look! Turn around and look.’

There was a depth there, you got a sense of depth.
When the heart starts to open out
you get a sense of that kind of depth,
the depth of the Self – it is profound.

And at the same time you can keep a large awareness,
an open awareness,
like a cosmic awareness –
and within that is this depth of space,
the depth of the Being.

And these are only beginnings.

And I keep pushing you back into yourself all the time,
because you come out…
I do not want you out, I want you in your own Self!
Then we have each other – truly have each other.
Remember in Mahabaleswar you sang that Beatles’ song,
‘Come together, right now, over me’?

And sometimes you can observe the Consciousness
rise up even in the head.
And in the heart you would open out,
and that opening would bring about this Awakening,
and in that Awakening is this process –
the unfolding of the Reality.

And in that innocence of your Being
every moment is a magic and a wonder,
for every moment you will discover something new.
For the Self is ever new, ever fresh.

And therein is true reverence,
therein is true affection and love;
therein is wisdom –
and it is all you!

When you have it with you, you have it everywhere.
When you do not have it with you,
you will not find it anywhere.

You are the freedom and you are the song.

There is a secret cave in your heart;
in that cave you would open out to the Self.

And from there you can observe
anything and everything that rises in you:
you have the experience –
and yet you have the freedom also.

S.: You said to observe everything from the heart. I tried that and I could see that I am not able to communicate from that space. It takes my whole energy to stay there.

Where are you now? Where are you centered?
Just observe your awareness – are you in the heart?

S.: Yes, but I see that even talking I lose it. It is very difficult for me to talk and stay at the same time in this heart space.

Can you come forth and at the same time be aware
of your coming forth in speech – like a witness –
with this kind of an awareness,
just an awareness of your Consciousness?
Within that awareness
is a centering of the Consciousness.
And it can be in the head, it can be in your heart;
and in the heart you would open out.
And that is the idea – to go deeper and open out.

And then if you were to come forth also, into action,
you could come forth from there.
You could keep the awareness all the time –
you would be aware of what you are saying…
When you listen also,
you would do so with this awareness.

S.: There is a deep longing to be in that space but also at the same time I think it is not possible to live like that.

Can you find out who is thinking that?
Where are these thoughts arising from?

S: A part of me that always tells me I have to function…

You would function.

When you also function, keep this awareness.
And then when you are in your quiet sittings
you can get into this space, deeper –
and that is when you start to get a hold on your activity outside also – it comes.
It is because we are used to being outside all the time
that it is so strange and difficult.
I call it ‘the front.’

So as you step deeper into this space,
into this heart space,
it opens out;
and that is when the front falls,
and you find your Being.

When you come to a quiet space in the heart,
stay there; just be there.
And if anything rises just let it rise and pass away.
There will be a quiet Being – stay there.
You could deepen it.
And in that quiet Being, in that quiet Silence,
there would be the Awakening.

Even while watching you can be poised there.
But when we watch we live outside.
When we watch we live in the other;
so you lose yourself.
So also all our actions…

There is a way of watching
where you watch, you observe,
and at the same time you are here (points to the heart):
you are aware and poised there in the heart –
you do not lose yourself.

And if there were any reactions,
any emotions, feelings that would rise,
observe those also –
and you would still be standing back,
behind it.

And that is the way to go deeper;
that is when you get a hold on yourself –
and that is when you can take hold of emotions, feelings,
and come forth.

Therein is the innocence –
that is the pure mind,
the pure Being.

Now we are a feeling,
a thought, an emotion, a passion, body –
this is what we are now.
But in this manner you would step back
into the pure Being, each time.
That is when you can get hold of a feeling,
a thought, a word, a passion, an emotion,
and come forth – and yet be free!

Pb.: Ultimately we are going to have to watch the death of our body, right? And I cannot even watch the dentist from the dentist chair! I mean the dentist seems to be the test – of everything! If I cannot even watch a toothache, how am I going to watch my body die?! Physical pain – what is so special about physical pain? It does not allow you; it tries everything for you not to watch it!

At a certain level of consciousness it is easier,
when you rise above.
But if you were to live in the physical consciousness itself,
then the pain can be tremendous.

Pb: What happens with you and physical pain?

At a certain level I would not feel it;
at another level I would feel it.

I talk about a process
of unfolding of the whole Reality;
and for that the consciousness has to come down
even to the body.

There are levels of consciousness.
You can have your consciousness above body;
then you would not experience the pain.
But if you were to come forth
then you would experience:
at the mental level you would experience thoughts,
at the emotional level you would experience emotions,
coming down to the body you would experience
this physical pain and bodily pleasure.

Pb: When you are above the body you are conscious of the body all the while?

Yes and you can observe the body,
but the consciousness is not in the body;
it is above the body, above life.

I give an example from Ramakrsna’s life –
I keep giving this example everytime.
In his village he had a nephew
whom he had seen been born
and grow to a handsome youth.
One day he died,
so the villagers and his relatives came to inform him,
and they were all weeping –
there was sorrow, pain.
But when they informed him that Aksay, his nephew,
was no more, he laughed –
he was way up there in his consciousness.
While they were weeping sitting in front of him,
he was laughing!
Not a ‘normal’ behaviour in the face of sorrow!!!
He is laughing because of his state of consciousness…

But after a while he came down,
and then he felt as if somebody was wringing his heart,
and there were tears –
pain and sorrow all came.

So there is a raising of the Consciousness
that is above life, beyond life,
an enlightenment – the great escape!
But it is when you have that
and you start to come down in life with it
and face life for what it is…,
that is what I am talking about.
This is why I am talking about life.

And for that the Awakening is required.
And it is a process then –
not just a raising of one’s consciousness to these heights
where it is above and beyond life –
no pain, no sorrow,
just this pure peace, calm,
Ananda, bliss…

But the same Consciousness has come down
and become all this,
this life, this play of life,
play of forces –
the Being in manifestation
as opposed to the Consciousness
that is above and beyond manifestation.

Pb.: Can we go back to the dentist?

(laughter)

Z.: I always thought manifestation is connected with the mind;
you manifest something you have in the mind…

That which formulates is the manifestation.
For example, sound is the manifestation of silence.
And thought is a manifestation
whereby you know you have a mind.
You have an unmanifest state of the mind –
the quiet mind.
And then in that there is thought –
the manifestation.

Creation – creation is a manifestation.
Time is a manifestation of the Timeless.
They are not two – they together is the whole Reality.
Time is also the Timeless!
It is a measure
measuring out the Immeasurable!
And so time is also the Immeasurable,
because it can never come to an end
measuring out that which is the Immeasurable.

Pb: What is a toothache manifestation or measure of?

Of life!
It is all there in life – pain, pleasure.
They coexist.

Pb: What I am trying to ask you really is about death. I am really scared of the moment I will have to watch my own body decay and fall apart. And I am going to have to watch it. But if I cannot even watch a small pain, how will I manage? I will die in utter sorrow and despair – unless I learn to go to the dentist!

To observe your passing away
you need not go to the dentist…!

Kr: A test for observing death is to see how one can be aware falling asleep.

But what about those
who do not consider death as a sleep?
Maybe for you it is so, but not for Prembodhi.

In the birth is the death
and in the death is the birth.
That which is born must pass away
and that which passes away will return.
And that which was never born will never die;
and that which never dies will never be born.

In the rising of the sun is the setting of it,
and in the setting of the sun is the rising of the sun –
the Self remains free.

That is why the observation must be in an impartial manner.
And yet I add – progressive.

There is a way of observing like I was saying
from above, and also from behind,
the pain that is there.
It is not easy,
especially when you have to face the dentist…

20 February 1992 morning

Pachmadhi