Summary: Explains about hostile forces; points out that they even work within oneself hence the need to develop integrity to recognise them. Ridicules the superficial manner in which the spiritual life is approached in today’s times and emphasises that the true sadhak must want only the Truth, develop depth in himself, and not be a casual tourist of the spiritual journey. Gives the example of the murshid who waits forty years to be accepted as a disciple. Describes the Ellora and Ajanta caves and praises the artists who captured the depth and peace of the Buddha in stone. Explains that such is true enlightenment and that the seeker must avoid the ego’s delusions and seek with devotion and depth.

Pr.: Would it be possible to hear a little more about the dark forces?

I have mostly been restrained in speaking of the subject because knowing you and your mind and its workings you will start to look and see these forces everywhere, and make false projections and indulge in gossip-mongering causing confusion.

Pr.: I think of late there is a lot of information out there but not coming from our scriptures or the way that our culture understands this. There is a lot of new-age literature talking about ‘entities’…

Yes, there you go. That’s what I mean; for almost all of this new-age stuff is sensationalising, hearsay, gossip-mongering and imaginations and not the true perception and knowing of it. They are not based in any actual experience, perception or on an actual understanding of things, although today almost everybody in the world is under their influence at some level if not totally possessed. It is very obvious. It is demonical forces that are mostly governing the world and people at present times. They are the forces of untruth, egoism, greed, deception, arrogance, exploitation, ostentation, wastefulness, violence and all that is perverse, and they are dominant everywhere today. Many of these literatures are for ‘selling’ purposes rather than for informing of the True – and what sells today if not the sensational! Whether it be true or untrue, it matters little. If it sells it must be true. This is the mindset today and so the Truth is compromised.

In a world where the ‘monkey-man’ or the ‘milk-drinking Ganesha’ and many other such sensations can enthral en masse and become raging news with wild-fire frenzy, taking hold of people’s sanity and turning it into pulp of make-believe, what do you expect? I wonder whither has the monkey-man gone or why has Ganesha stopped drinking milk all of a sudden. I suppose people have to move on to new sensations and in truth that’s what has happened to both the monkey-man and Ganesha, and not old-age, death or indigestion overcoming their mischief or appetite! New-age literature is just the false, sophisticated and urban cover of the more rural, crude and rustic example mentioned above. Rather, I would suggest reading better material than the so-called new-age stuff however sophisticated and attractive it may seem and all the more so for these reasons, as they are immediate suspects and the alarm-bells should start ringing for it is only a sales-pitch. If you want to read about these forces, read and hear people who have done sadhana and have first-hand experience of these things, like Ramakrishna, Aurobindo and others like them. I see them, have faced them, dealt with them all my life and still do, even so through you. They are always trying to disrupt, create discord and prevent the work from happening or they want their pound of flesh!

I have talked about these forces and their hostile behaviour, although I tend not to delve too much into it because it can become an obsession and excuse, to be seen and felt everywhere in all and sundry even when not present, and sometimes even abused to settle scores like it happened with Christianity and Satan and this whole obsession with sin and the dark side. Satan was always of the other and never in oneself even when most obvious. Joan of Arc and many others were systematically persecuted falsely. In the case of Saint Teresa, when she was having all her experiences and realisations, many people and her contemporaries were not only critical but attributed them to be the work of Satan, whether from genuine concern and liturgical sincerity or their own jealous demons with that as the cover, we can only guess; but anyway they put her through hell for having it while feeling very self-righteous about themselves, which is not even a human trait leave alone a divine one. Rather when carried too far it becomes tyrannical and demonical, which is satanical for sure, and the organised church has perpetuated this over many a nation and people. So these were misconceptions at the least and were untrue, basically because there was a certain obsession with them and an attached self-righteous know-all ego which prevented the objectivity to the inference. Everything strange or not Christian-looking was Satan or the working of Satan: very convenient to perpetuate one’s dominance and authority over others which in itself can be touching the satanical. It was not experiential rather a dogma, a religious one at that in the old-world, and now a sensational and want-to-believe-in-a-hurry know-all in the New Age. It is not taken in the correct perspective and with enough impartial self-inquiry and love of truth; therefore it will always be misrepresented.

This has not been much the case in the Indian spiritual tradition because of a more rounded and wider view and a more complete and comprehensive understanding of the Reality, while in Christianity this is not so. There is rather an obsessive narrow view of it and for that reason ones like Saint Teresa had to go through a lot of suffering. She did not receive the kind of empathy or support that she should have got. On the other hand, it is another matter that to her it acted as a test for her experiences. So there is this positive side as it only ultimately confirmed and strengthened her in her experiences. Even so there were many a moment when she doubted them herself, also because of all the negative and ignorant inputs that she was getting from people who were in positions of supposed authority, who even though unqualified were authorised to judge her, when they themselves did not have the experience nor the true understanding or even the integrity, only blindly going by the written word of the scriptures.

Ramakrishna would say that one who keeps saying, “I am a sinner” becomes a sinner, and one who obsesses over anything starts to see that thing everywhere even when not there. That is why it has to be considered in a yogic and objective manner and one must not get carried away by make-belief and the sensational.

There is much that takes up the consciousness, you have the Kauravas and you have the Pandavas. Besides, there are all kinds of beings and forces, unfriendly, mischievous and even hostile especially at the lower levels of the consciousness: if you read Aurobindo’s ‘Letters on Yoga’ there is a whole section on the hostile forces that you can come in contact with in sadhana. In fact, people do not know it but this world mostly functions under the influence of the hostiles actually. It is not just the humanity of humans that is working here in this world but the influences of these hostiles, and even possession, behind many of the activities of the humans. There seems to be hardly any visible element of the Divine working here in the world in these times; the divine element and its workings is a rarity. There is always the struggle between the forces of Light and the forces of darkness and ignorance, and that struggle will continue until the complete and full manifestation of what is to be for humanity – the Divine; for a greater and greater manifestation of Light and Truth.

The hostile and dark forces and beings have their place in this dual creation, in this creation of opposites – for the forces of Light to manifest a greater potential. They are there as a continuous test of integrity, strength and to manifest a greater light. It is another matter that the perversity and distortion of the Truth that they entail is also risky and dangerous, and therefore sadhana involves becoming aware of all this with caution, for their conscious recognition and rejection whenever they may present themselves in your wayfaring path. That is why I am so critical about this enlightenment business. What should be your single purpose for enlightenment? It is to get to the Truth whatever it may be. You must continue to inquire with integrity, and not get carried away with anything and everything based on preferences. Because then you are open to handing yourself to these forces very easily, even in advanced stages of your sadhana.

Pr.: So these forces could be just around us… anyone?

Yes, it can be so. And at first more so from within us because they are present in our individualised consciousness especially at the lower levels where their influence and dominance are more complete, and especially for us because in our sadhana we must deal with all the levels of the consciousness for a complete transformation and victory. And then of course outside too, because what is inside is outside too. And when you really start living a life of sadhana and working with yourself, you start to understand these things. But the idea is not to ever be fearful of them, rather to develop the integrity to recognise them for what they are. And that is why it requires that exceptional kind of conviction and strength.

Yes, that is why I keep saying – meditation, sadhana.

Good, bad, ugly – whatever comes, look at it, face it, gain strength in that way to be able to face anything without giving in. But you should be able to recognise things for what they are, and observation and meditation with integrity will bring that. And this is to be repeatedly done. That is why I keep knocking down this whole nonsense of ‘instant enlightenment’ and all that rubbish! There is so much to work with if you want transformation! Of course, most sadhanas do not involve this: they, you can say, open out only in the upper reaches of the consciousness and enjoy the space so attained as the culmination, crown and success of their sadhana without feeling the need and necessity for going further to a complete realisation and transformation from the lowest to the highest, from the inner to the outer; so nothing of this work is done. Such sadhanas are more of an escape into transcendence. You may be confronted at the normal level from the outside but internally this thing never gets fully worked out to the extent required because the lower nature and consciousness remain unworked, untouched and untransformed for not having participated in the sadhana.

In the movies and fiction stories too you see it, this battle between the dark forces and the forces of Light. Take Star Wars for example – interestingly that is exactly what is being expressed – even though seen as fiction and not as reality. But it is all there as reality in the consciousness so it presents itself everywhere, even so in our imaginings and seeming fiction. Everywhere this is seen, within and without, the struggle between forces of Light and forces of darkness, a struggle from the beginning of time – ultimately for the forces of Light to be victorious in the hard-won battle. Imagination too, however fictitious it may seem to the external mind, is an expression of an underlying reality whatever form it may take as a medium in the outer manifestation. In the Mahâbhârata it is all described, in all of its perspective, all the different kinds of beings and their actions. It is the truth, it is the truth! I have talked about it whenever required in the course of sadhana, to be understood and taken in one’s stride without obsessing about it for gossip-mongering and vain sensationalising, as also to avoid creating unnecessary fear and confusion in people. Know that they do exist but do not get carried away with self-grandeur in your sadhana, for that is where they hide most besides other places.

Pr.: I asked because for the longest time I did not want to believe that they could exist. I was programmed to believe there is only the positive.

Really!? How can that be when with the positive the negative too is all the time in and around you, pressing upon you in plain sight? Positive and negative are two sides of life and this creation of duality. It makes for the wheel of life to turn: birth-death, left-right, male-female, good-bad and so on – it is seen everywhere in life as life’s ‘natural’ program, surely you can see it whatever your ‘learnt’ program. That is why to understand the Reality in all its comprehensive completeness objectivity is required, to finally see both for what they are without bias. That is it. Simple! Because sticking to either, whether it is positive or negative, you only get one side of the story, and you can trip up anywhere therefore. It is another matter that the positive is to be adhered to over and above the negative when dealing with the practicality of life so long as a choice between the two is to be made.

When you face the Truth for what it is, you prepare yourself for the Truth in all its comprehensiveness – to see the whole Truth. Otherwise it is only a partial truth, a mixed-up truth, a half-truth, however comfortable it may seem. It is not about comfort or discomfort, it is about the Truth, and the whole Truth, whether comfortable or uncomfortable. When that is the approach, then you come to the full Truth. That is why it is very subtle, very subtle indeed, and so is it explained in the Gîtâ. And that is why I keep insisting: watch everything. Lots of things outwardly may seem to have a lot of attractive shine, yes, very attractive, and people who are immature get carried away with them. This shows the superficiality of their seeking and that is why they can never go the whole way – nay, they fall by the wayside.

You must develop the insight and the sincerity of purpose of wanting only the Truth. This development is very important, and that is why sadhana is a long term process: you have to develop that kind of mind, that correct mindset, the correct attitude – then you can enter the True, then you can thread the needle, so to speak. So it is all in the attitude. Even if you momentarily trip up, then you can always stand up, learn from it and move on – but there must be that innate sincerity in you, in your soul. It should be in your soul. You need to develop it.

Keeping that always in your mind, ultimately in your soul, you must live for wanting nothing but the Truth, for knowing in truth what the Reality is – not getting carried away because somebody or your own fickle mind says something that is superficially appealing, or because of your own petty ambitions and notion. That is what I am trying to point out. I am saying this to knock some sense into you! It is a dirty job because people do not like to be knocked even when it is sensible, they only like to hear pleasantries, even though false. That is why I said these are gimmicks, stupidities – in the same place twenty ‘Mona Lisas’ moving around, twenty ‘Leonardos’ and yet you went about unquestioningly believing it or accepting it without murmur!¹ How foolish can one get? How frivolous! And you are seeking enlightenment? Such people are not even ready for ordinary life and they claim to enlightenment! Then the Teacher has to make sure that they are given a good beating actually. What nonsense! What stupid and foolish ideas do you have? You mean to say that in your past lives you could not have been an idiot? Well, I must enlighten you that you are one in this life for sure if you believed in all this rubbish. You want to be Mona Lisa because she is considered physically the most beautiful woman. Although I don’t think so. Amazing – everybody is Mona Lisa, amongst the women of the past, or Madonna, depends on whom you want to imagine to be, what your unrealistic ambitions are. Or amongst men everybody is Leonardo da Vinci or whoever, and I suppose nobody would want to be just plain ordinary. ‘I was this, I was that, I was even enlightened, and this life I forgot about it!’ What foolishness!

That kind of clarity must be there which can see through this rubbish, question this rubbish, ‘rubbish’ this rubbish. That is sincerity – these are the qualifications of a true seeker. And that is why I differentiate between tourist and seeker. Do not seek it as you would a commodity. It is a subjectification – it is a knowing of yourself, it is a science of yourself. And in yourself there is much that is a friend, and much that may bring your own downfall. That is why in the Gîtâ it says, “Your self can be the friend of yourself and your self can be the enemy of yourself.”² Now find out which is which in you! And it is not necessarily that the enemy in you will say: ‘I am your enemy,’ and make things difficult and uncomfortable for you so that you may recognise. It may make things easy for you and start putting in your mind that what is easy is good for you and so on. All kinds of suggestions may come up in your mind, like: ‘Everything that is easy and pleasurable is good for me, this is my friend’ – this is the usual behaviour. No, not in this business – and these forces can hide behind such thinking and trip you in your sadhana.

There are ‘n’ number of stories about this, to bring you to the true understanding. Historically all traditions whether Sufi, Zen, Christian, Islamic, Indian, all throughout the past have categorically emphasised this thing. Why was Milarepa made to go through such a tough time? Why did Marpa make it so difficult for him and put him through such a tough initiation? Was Marpa some kind of a sadist? He is cleaning Milarepa out, preparing him. He is cleaning out his dark elements so he stands firm with and on the side of light. And that is why some Masters are not keen to get everybody to immediately sit and meditate until prepared and ready through guided work and service. What are you going to meditate on? You may start to meditate on things that you should not be meditating on! This is not monkey business! You can end up a monkey in the hands of these forces. You can end up in such a hole where you will not be able to climb out! Death is nothing, death is easy compared to this – this could be death of the soul.

That is why you see today all the rubbish that goes around – ‘kundalini yoga’ they will advertise, the expert masters! Some such rubbish! ‘Kundalini yoga’! As if it is a cup of coffee that is being dished out to people or chocolate biscuits. Do you know what it entails for it to awaken? And what it can do if you are not prepared and ready? This is not to scare you but the idea is to know that it requires great commitment, commitment to the True: it is not a small thing. Ultimately you are dealing with very powerful forces. I have mentioned this time and time again – I am not the type who will tell you, “Oh, it is a wonderful thing and easy to have!” I have never ever said that. Rather from the very beginning I have spoken to you about the difficulties you may encounter on the journey and to prepare for that, so that you get used to the reality of the journey and you understand it – and then the good will happen. Anyway, the good you do not have to worry about – where is the idea of worrying about the good? It is what is going to trip you up that you should know about, worry about. I am not going to create illusions and delusions in your mind for that is not my job. My job is rather to clear them. I would be fooling you otherwise, and my conscience cannot allow it. But these fly-by-night gurus and babas go around doing just that, they do not have the awakening, otherwise they would not be speaking of it in this manner. ‘Kundalini yoga’ – and it attracts. ‘Tantra yoga’, and everybody is attracted – because in their misunderstanding it has to do with enhanced sex preferably and that is the objective! But do you know what it means to travel on this journey and what it entails? Will you be able to handle such forces that make up the universe?

It is very attractive, in today’s times this kind of façade that is woven around enlightenment. But if you find the true Guru he will walk with you and prevent you from going astray. That is why there is the Guru and then there are all these people in business. The Guru is thinking of your welfare, while you may not. His words may not appeal to you but he is not bothered about that because he knows what true seeking is all about. Everybody rushes here, runs there, and wherever the drama is happening there are the large numbers because people are attracted to the sensational. Michael Jackson has a large number of people, larger than any of these so-called new-age gurus, and women faint when they see him, touch him! Then he must be the guru of all gurus! Exactly! So what kind of measure are you applying? In fact, in this business it may not look like much on the outside, it is about the work done in the inside that matters.

So grow up, basically! We need mature people for this. Do not be naive, do not be stupid. You may have your idiosyncrasies to begin with, but the Guru, Master, if you have found one, will guide you out of them and to the right thing. He is guide, pathfinder and he is a friend too. I have been so all my life, a friend to people, but people know not how to be friends. Look at the relationship of Arjuna with Krishna, what a beautiful relationship! And the relationship of Vivekananda with Ramakrishna, it is of such deep love and affection. Look at the relationship between Marpa and Milarepa, one of loyalty and commitment par excellence. Pure dedication. In fact that is why in the past I have said, I never had a Guru, but for one life I am going to ask that Fellow up there, give me a Guru, whoever it may be. I just want to experience that relationship, because it is such a wonderful one. I do not need a Guru for what I have already, for God has been my Guru my entire life, but for the sheer beauty of that relationship. I have had a flute teacher with whom I have had the taste of such a relationship, even though I am what I am. But my relationship with him was one of great reverence, devotion, learning and dedication even though he was only my flute teacher and I an awakened soul. Even today if he were to walk in through that door I would step up and touch his feet with all my heart and soul. I suppose that is my culture. For me he is not an ordinary man and just a flute teacher. For me he embodies in him all that is noble in learning, Nobilis.

I am talking about depth. You must create depth in yourself, depth in your seeking, depth in your search. That is where the commitment and sincerity come in, otherwise you will be swept away like a wreck in a flood, like flies you will get swatted. You are dealing with such forces – it is not monkey business! Why would Buddha otherwise say, “One who can conquer himself is superior to one who can conquer the entire world”? He is not just giving some pep talk for your entertainment. He is giving you the real story. This is a continuous process. The ego will hide under every stone, every leaf, every thought! For example a certain thought may appeal to you, but where is the thought coming from? What is behind that thought? What kind of thought is it? There may be distortion, there may be perversion, there may be falsehood, there may be envy, jealousy, hate, hypocrisy – do you recognise it? There may be ambition, do you recognise it – what is that ambition, what is behind that ambition? And because of that ambition there may be deception: is that your objective? You must seek nothing but the naked Truth. That is what you have to become – totally naked in the face of that Truth. That is authentic and that in itself is a progression.

And you see the lives of genuine, authentic seekers and Masters in the past, like Saint Francis. Look at what they went through. Look at Ramakrishna. Read Jesus, Buddha, Aurobindo – there are so many. And when you start reading about their lives, their nature will enter into you and your mind will develop in that way. If you go to people like these supermarket gurus you see their wealth and numbers of people around them and are impressed as to their authenticity, but that alone cannot be the measure of any spiritual attainment leave alone enlightenment of the highest order. To do that is nonsense, for the spiritual stature cannot be measured by materials and numbers of people, for then every well-to-do and famous person would be of a high spiritual stature. But you go by that! Then you are not even ready for this world of ordinary life – and this is extraordinary life that we are talking about. You have a long way yet to go. That is why Shivapuri Baba also says, “First you have to live right, the right life as a preparation for the spiritual.” And that is what we are doing here.

Another thing: the whole of life is to be in Yoga, even the most mundane activity. One otherwise harbours stupid ideas and notions: ‘Oh, I am going to become great after enlightenment,’ so the work one seeks to do has to be only that which looks great. It is a nonsensical idea. Our work includes all works whether simple, mundane or great done as sadhana. So when you walk with me this is what I will teach because this is the way I walk. And I am still walking, my walking is not over – and it is not going to be ‘over’ because it is an infinite walking. That is why Ramakrishna also said, “The higher you go, there are higher regions still.” And this is no little thing. The deeper you go, there are deeper regions still. But it requires that kind of soul, committed in that way to stay the course. Otherwise you will be waylaid at every step; you will be waylaid at every moment with misconceptions of your own mind.

That is why even though the morning meditation may seem very simple to you, it is not so. Here you have to watch and face anything and everything that may come up, initially seeming endless, that is not in any way glamorous. It is rather very difficult and laborious to begin with for a very long time before any visible progress is made because the work involves all the different levels of your consciousness. And when I move the force it will pressurise, even agitate you, it will bring up things, pushing to open you out inside and above. So you have to do your bit, following instructions, staying centred, watching and separating yourself inside from whatever that comes up while I do my bit, and together we will walk.

K.: When you say ‘tourist’, do you mean tourist in life?

Yes, like a tourist in life, tourist in seeking, because you approach everything like a tourist. As a tourist you are an uncommitted temporary visitor and traveller seeking some place, some spot, something for some pleasure, some entertainment, like a bee hopping from flower to flower sipping of the nectar without any commitment to the flower. It is another matter altogether that in the case of the bee it unintentionally ultimately performs nature’s larger design. A seeker on the other hand unlike the tourist is a committed traveller, committed to his objective, self-offering his life completely to the seeking, to the finding of the Truth. There is a vast difference. I have given so many examples of the kind of commitment and depth that is required. So many stories have I told you – for one, the story of the Sufi Pir and the seeker who wanted to be his disciple and how he was made to wait for such a long time before the Pir accepted him as his murshid, disciple. Today the gurus like to collect people around them, they prefer quantity to quality. I have never been like that. I have had to play this role of Guru. I have agreed to play the role. But I am much more than this role. I am what I am from birth. I have been like this all my life, this is normal for me – what I am and what I have. I did not choose to be a Guru – I was made to play this role, it was thrust upon me.

So when this seeker, the would-be murshid comes to the Pir and says, “I want to be your disciple,” the Pir replies, “Wait” – and kept him waiting for forty years. Read these stories, you will understand the kind of commitment that is required. He made him wait for forty years! Of course this may be extreme in today’s times but you get the idea. We also in our own way work with you sounding and developing your depth of commitment. We make it difficult, put you through the grind, for your own growth, sounding the depth of your soul. It is an unpleasant job – but ultimately it is gold that will come forth. So he waits, and for forty years. There was gold in this man: he was not a tourist, he was a true seeker! To this Pir many devotees used to come for darshan and blessings. But this man wants to be a disciple to him. He says, “I want to be your disciple, I want to walk with you, walk the whole way, I want you to be my Guide.” The Pir says, “Wait.” There were always visiting devotees coming and going who could enter at will as it were. But being accepted as a seeker and a disciple by the Master, by the Guide, is something much more. In contrast today what you see is this tourism, so-called spiritual tourism that is being encouraged. All the other has been lost – on both sides – seekers of that kind, and Guides of that kind. Anybody today becomes a guru and anybody thinks himself ready to become a disciple. ‘Enlightenment, it is a nice thing and a desirable thing, so I would like to be enlightened,’ and so one believes the delivery of it should be immediate without understanding the kind of commitment and the kind of work it requires which is developed through many lifetimes.

I am telling you these stories to give you an understanding. It is not about how it was in the past and how it is different now. In today’s times people are very impatient, but this work requires a lot of patience and commitment. They both go together; if you are not committed you cannot be patient and if you are impatient that is an indication that you do not have commitment. It is big work, hard work, difficult work, and that is why people have to study the past, read the history of people who have gone before. You will then understand the kind of commitment that is expected, the kind of work that is expected, it will make you more mature about your journey and you will have a better sense of reality. Today there is no sense of reality, and a lot of it has to do with the people who are spreading this canard, these kinds of ideas, as if the journey and enlightenment is a piece of cake at the end of a cakewalk, easy. So even if something were to happen, some feeling, some space or experience for whatever reason, you will never be able to retain it or carry it further and build upon it. People have a childish and unrealistic notion of this journey, almost comical I must say, if it weren’t dangerously stupid. As in the case of Gopi Krishna, he did it on his own, but see how much trouble he went through because he had no one to guide him. However, his temperament and culture of being did help him finally, which may not be the case with many. Of this I am certain, and therefore it is important to understand all this and be cautioned otherwise you can get twisted, distorted, perverted and even come to serious harm – everything is possible, as Aurobindo confirms and so too J. Krishnamurti when he says, “There are forces in nature that are harmful to the manifestation.”

Of course it is not to be feared, but it requires a lot of strength and integrity, not to mention common sense which seems to be not very common. You need to be brave and courageous: ‘I can do it!’ Yes, this is a good attitude but neither should you be stupid in having a bloated idea of yourself and a distorted sense of reality. Neither nervous nor blatantly overconfident with an exaggerated image of oneself – and nigh everyone has that image. In fact that will also be taken advantage of – exactly! This happens to many; initially people are very keen and feel ready, then things start to happen and fear comes up or something else which becomes a challenge and one is no more sure of it. That means something in one’s temperament is not ready and has to be worked with and made ready for you to carry on, and carry on you must without giving up, with the help of the Guide and Master.

Even great advanced Ṛishis in the past have gone through all this, this is not something that is of my own imagination, and I know it first-hand through my own sadhana. I never experienced fear of the journey because for me this is something which is very natural, whether it is an achievement from many lifetimes in the past or whatever it may be, it does not matter. It requires tremendous commitment and the will to go the whole way, however difficult. Ramakrishna is the same, J. Krishnamurti is the same, whatever their differing achievements. But for some it has been a hard journey, a very difficult journey indeed. And for those who are not ready it can finish them off. That is why a Guide on this journey is imperative and indispensable. And when there are people who say you do not need a Teacher, Guru and Master on this most important of journeys it is utter nonsense, most do; it is only a rare few who can manage on their own and most times they receive help from within, their inner guru or from Above. You need a Guide who has walked the journey, that is the qualification. But today there is such a racket, you do not know who has walked the journey and how much he has walked. The claimants are many, and when there is business involved, profiteering involved, then you will have all sorts of people jumping into it. At one time it was not so much the case.

So anyway, this murshid, this seeker, he waits, and he is made to wait forty long years. His journey began the moment he presented himself to his Pir, in the true manner. Even the wait of forty years is part of the journey and this murshid somehow instinctively knew it. This man is committed, obviously! Can you wait forty years, like that? But for him those forty years act as sadhana because he accepts this as ‘hukum’, âdeœa, command; he has the right temperament and commitment, he will not lose out. The Master has started working with him, he accepts. He did not in the least think that to wait was a waste of time, rather he knew it was the right thing to do since the Master had asked him to wait, however long the wait. It showed his dedication to the Master and commitment to the journey to go the whole way. And he was not a dilettante. So he did not waste his time while he waited by going here and there, cutting capers or whiling his time impatiently twiddling his thumb or going off to shop elsewhere for enlightenment. Of course neither did he react, get upset, complain and carp about it, or turn hostile and even abuse the Master which is the usual behaviour of ‘enlightenment tourists’ of today. No, he waits, he is committed there – forty years! Sadhana is happening, the Master has started to work with him, albeit covertly sounding his depth of character and commitment, and besides he on his own takes up an activity showcasing his aptitude, devotion and humility while he waits for the Master to beckon him and overtly accept him to be his Guide on this, the greatest journey of the soul. He starts to clean the shoes of the devotees and people who are visiting the Pir, expressing his reverence and devotion to the Master. It shows his temperament, his character, his humility: he is truly ready for this journey. His commitment is truly of the highest order, he is special and is truly qualified for the journey, he is virtually there. After forty years he is invited in, welcomed and accepted as a murshid, disciple. And it did not take him long to become part of the full legacy of the Guru.

Today out there in the chaos it is otherwise. That is why I say, as you seek so shall you find. If there is the above kind of commitment then you shall find that kind of objective, reach and Guide. And if you do not have that kind of commitment but are fortunate enough to find a real Guru then make the commitment, for you will benefit truly. Those who want quick-fixes, instant enlightenment and to quickly become gurus themselves, then they will find quick-fix gurus! Whether they are really gurus is highly suspect, for quick-fixes don’t work on the journey, but that is another matter. After all this world is one big drama and comedy, with people living in self-delusions, and so a tragedy too.

Do you think that people out there are living in the real sense? All will die one day – they live delusions, they live an unreal life. Only when your ‘outsight’ switches to ‘insight’, and your inner eye opens, your inner sight opens as it were that you start to see how unreal are the lives that people are living. And they think they are living a real life – that is the delusion. That is why the age-old ancient prayer reminding us from time immemorial, “Asato mâ sadgamaya; tâmaso mâ jyotirgamaya; mṛityormâmṛitaṃ gamaya.” From the unreal reach me to the Real, from darkness reach me to Light, from death reach me to Immortality – here and now, while we yet live on this earth. But to get there it requires the kind of temperament that the above mentioned murshid, disciple, seeker, call him what you may, had – and to develop it if you don’t have. And it is available and potential in everyone. Yes, but it has its law, it has its dharma. And that is why the Indian concept of dharma is very profound. To understand it is to live a very beautiful life, it is the innate law of life and creation. Once you start living like this things come easy. Dharma, to understand dharma: there is a dharma to everything, there is a dharma to the seeking also. When you fulfil that dharma you become recipients of grace, the touch of God, increasingly. You start to awaken to the life within. You will find forces, people, your inner being helping you.

And yet you will be put to the test. I mean look at Jesus, Son of God, he was put to such a test. There was firstly the temptation to jump off the cliff. ‘God will save you,’ was the suggestion by Satan. But where is this Satan, who is this Satan? Really all this is happening in His own mind and self. It is not something or somebody in the outside – which would be very easy to recognise and therefore disregard: ‘What foolishness are you asking me to do?’ Yes, you will hear voices, inner voices; many people do so but don’t know where they are coming from to put them in the correct perspective, what level of consciousness, and whether good, bad or even evil. They are unable to recognise their true nature, and instead identify in the first instant and make it their own: ‘Oh, I heard this in myself,’ ‘I heard a voice speaking to me.’ You hear this all the time you know, and then what happens is what happened in America with the cult of Reverend Jones. Have you heard of Reverend Jones? No? There was this so-called religious community of people set up by the ‘Reverend’ who finally killed all of them. It was a massacre, they all ended up being poisoned by him. They were forced to take poison. According to him God was speaking to him! Obviously a lunatic and there have been many.

There was another one very recently and this really takes the cake: a Korean man decided – ‘God is going to call me on the radio.’ And this is not so long ago, I think only three or four years ago. He went to Chicago, to America of course, where else! He announced beforehand: ‘In this place and at such and such time on such a day God is going to talk to me, he is going to call me on the radio.’ And there were many believers of this nonsense with him – scientists, professors, so-called well-to-do rich and famous society people – can you imagine? You wonder about their science and sanity! He was never heard of after that. All we can suppose is that Big G never called or maybe some aliens got hold of him and are holding him hostage or he and his loony entourage are still waiting for the radio call. Still waiting! Where is it all coming from? It is all in the ignorance of the ego. All these ideas come because of ambition, mahatvâkânkshâ – desire to be someone special, chosen by God. Self-delusional religious notions of self-grandeur: ‘I am the chosen one.’ Hallelujah!

Jesus too said, “I am the Son of God. I am He,” for which of course he was crucified. And like Jesus so did Krishna say, “I am the Purushottama, I am the supreme Godhead.” But they can say it, they are speaking the Truth for they know the Truth; they are the Truth. They are speaking from the True consciousness unlike these people who are coming from self-delusion founded in desire and ambition; a different level of consciousness than Jesus and Krishna, like the crow claiming to be the swan, an old Indian saying. Truly a false and empty boast and as is seen many a time even dangerous, not only for oneself but consequentially for others too. Just as for the normally deluded so it is for the sadhaks, seekers of the True. Along the journey many a time, many a thing will crop up in their mind and consciousness, this being one of them. Especially when you start having some experiences and not only before them, depending on the type of person, and temperament and personality one has. In fact most people to some extent become victim to this, therefore the indispensable place of the Guru, Guide and Master in one’s life and sadhana cannot be emphasised enough. Get one glimpse of something and people start claiming to have found everything and become God above all. Watch out!

Pr.: Is ambition part of the small I?

Yes. Lower existence and nature, self-indulgent to boot!

Pr.: Is it a necessary part?

Well, it is part of your life consciousness albeit a lower one and for a while it may seem to have a utility in ordinary life, but a very limited utility if at that, to be finally left behind for a higher motivational force, existence and pursuit. But in this journey you would have to disregard it and work from a nobler level, go beyond it, you see. It is not ambition that should power your seeking and search, it should be a longing and a yearning that should come from your soul. That is why Aurobindo and others like him have consistently said it is not until you get an inner call that you are genuinely ready for this. In the meanwhile of course you must sincerely prepare for it. Find a Guru and Master to guide you.

Today many people are seemingly seeking – do you think it is from some deep inner call? No, not so really. Fine, to whatever extent they will commit themselves to that extent they will find whatever they seek. That is why I say, as you seek so shall you find. But for the ones with the call it is another thing altogether, from the very beginning the quality and depth of their seeking will be of a special kind. And one can prepare for the call through one’s sincerity in the presence of an authentic Guide and Master. But one will have to offer oneself in a complete commitment. And then you will increasingly be touched within by the Truth and awaken to God, then the journey becomes so much more. Then you realise what this journey is really all about.

That is why I am so critical of people when they talk about ‘becoming the Buddha’ as if He is their next door neighbour. What and who is the Buddha? Buddha’s enlightenment is commensurate with his person, his character. So also Jesus. Otherwise in their immaturity everybody believes that after enlightenment they become the Buddha, and that all enlightened people are exactly the same. That is why I said it is all very immature, very naive. Because they have never worked for it they are not understanding, they do not know how much work is involved, what it entails, what it involves. This is on one side. On the other side yes, if you live rightly, if you manage to find and walk with someone who is authentic, who is true, you will get there very easily, comfortably. Although you will be put to the test. So are you game? You must ask yourself and continue to ask yourself. Seek you must – sincerely. God and Truth live in your own heart. You ask of that God and of that Truth – simple prayers, simple inquiries you make of your own self – ‘Make me walk this journey in sincerity, let me not seek the superficial.’ That is all. This is all that is required. And even if there is one iota of sincerity in that inquiry, that inner Truth in you, that inner God and the God that is everywhere, the Truth that is everywhere, will start guiding you to where you need to go. This is the Truth that is inherent in existence, and this is what faith is.

Faith is a very deep-seated thing: faith is very powerful – very, very powerful. Really, faith is your soul seeking itself. And then the journey is beautiful, it is a very beautiful journey. It has to be. It is full of light. And because you have been sincere and you seek the Truth the forces of Truth will guide you – it is automatic, this is the dharma of the universe. It is not as if there are only forces of untruth around, there are forces and beings of Truth too! So you must stand committed on the side of the forces of Truth, forces of Light. You have to continue to say and maintain and keep in your mind that: ‘I have to stand on the side of Truth however difficult it may be.’ What does Christ mean by, “I sit on the right side of God”? That is what He is meaning: it is not right as opposed to left side as in direction – it is about the right side as opposed to the wrong side.

You must seek the Divine and the Divine alone. Not some ambition or idea motivated by your ambitions. Ambitions are okay for this world, for running around, having this and that of the world. It cannot do for your seeking, it will have no place ultimately on your journey. Ambition is very superficial; you can manage material life with it in the world to whatever extent, but that life ends in death. This is something else. It is a call of the soul from within, it is the soul longing for itself – the soul longing for itself.

That is what happened to the Buddha: nothing can stop him getting there, nothing.

K.: May I ask you, I do not know if you have ever talked about it, but what is the Truth?

What else have I been talking about all my life and with you? And you are still not getting it. How do you expect me to explain to you the completeness of something so immense in words, that too off the cuff in a sentence or two in a sitting and you would understand it, when in all these years of doing just that, being with you and guiding you day in day out you haven’t understood even a little of the Truth, leave alone start to realise It? Far from it, you haven’t even managed to understand that that’s what I have been doing and so are asking me this silly question as if you have just arrived on the scene, like a jack-in-the-box. Surely you can understand my dilemma of working with you people to guide you to the Truth! I have been talking to you and guiding you to it and you are still asking me such a silly question as if all this while I have been doing something else. So you can see how difficult it is to unfold the Reality and Truth to you when even years of talking haven’t given the faintest idea of what has been done and said. Is it so simple? Obviously it isn’t! And you have just proved it.

The Truth is you, the Truth is all. To know yourself and to know what all is in essence and in manifestation and in all comprehensiveness is to continue to know the Truth. Not superficially but in its depth, profundity and totality. It cannot be understood by mere words. It needs to be sought, experienced and lived increasingly. The Truth is enormous, comprehensive, complete and beyond comprehension of the ordinary mind with its limitations. Truth is you – in all its ignorance, and in all its light. Truth is that which you do not know yet of yourself. And that is what you are doing here: by meditating, looking and seeking in yourself, by watching yourself move about, you are in search of that Truth, to know it first-hand. Even so your limitations, your ignorances, even so your joys, your sorrows, and even more so that which you know not yet. What you now know of the Truth that is you and all else is very limited. What is yet to be known is immense. It is not some concept of your mind, even of the greatest of minds. It is not an idea, opinion or view, nor is it just some space or experience or even a realisation or two. The Truth stands by itself in all its comprehensiveness, and is the maker of minds. Everything is That, everything is the Truth. That Truth abides even in the grain of sand. The grain of sand is the Truth – the Truth that it is a grain of sand, but within it and without it holds in itself the secret to a greater Truth.

So there is a truth about you – you are a woman, you come from Brazil, you have family. This is also a truth, but it is a relative truth, it is the external manifest truth of yourself: limited, temporary and transient. But there is another Truth which you do not know yet of yourself, that which is invisible and inexperiential to you presently. So there is a visible truth and there is an invisible truth. Our sadhana is all about knowing what is visible in its correct perspective and what is invisible – what you know of yourself now, immediately, and what is yet to be known, and giving them their correct perspective. You are taking yourself for granted when you say: ‘This is me.’ In what sense and perspective? For there is much more to you than what you understand of yourself. Therefore it is the greatest adventure, it is a mystery to discover, a mystique to uncover through the mystical science of mysticism. King science of the Kingly secret, Sovereign science of the Sovereign secret as the Gîtâ says.

Many have known the Truth in some part or the other with only a rare few to the fullest extent. And so shall you – if you seek it as a true seeker, not as a tourist. You may begin as a tourist but ultimately you must become a true seeker and a permanent walker of the path, not a temporary wayward one. And it is not this or that path actually – as if there are different paths to life and Truth. Really, there are only two paths: an ignorant false life-path which most people in the world follow, a path leading to mortality; and a true life-path wherein is a journey you consciously commit yourself to through sadhana, an unfolding Reality and Truth that never dies and is forever living, the path to immortality. It is not what ‘path’ you will follow, or what ‘path’ we follow. We follow the path of unfolding light and perfection, a complete, all-comprehensive self-discovering path to the complete Reality and the whole Truth, nothing less. And definitely, a point is reached when the journey becomes utterly beautiful and God is with you all the time. And that is why it is such a paradox, such a tragedy, that for the sake of some petty ambitions and flimsy desires many do not walk the real journey and deny themselves the true life. That is real ignorance.

So do not live delusions. Yes, you will pass through delusions, you will be confronted by them, but you must in your attitude, in your mind and heart seek and inquire only of and for the Truth. Then you will be able to recognise the Truth from the falsehood, the Real from the unreal. You must stand on the side of Truth, the right side of God always and seek it only, at all times and in all things. That capacity is what a seeker develops; a tourist is not able to do that because the tourist gives no time to such development, this is the difference between the tourist and the seeker. The difference is in their attitude. When you start doing that or when you at least intend to do that, yes, you are committing yourself to true seeking. So it requires great integrity. A seeker has integrity, for the tourist it does not matter. I mean tourists may not be bad people, we are not talking about good and bad here, it is just the kind of integrity that is required. It needs great will and stamina, it requires insight to be able to discriminate between the unreal and the Real, the Truth from the falsehood. That is why as you travel all the falsehood should be left behind, ambitions should be left behind; it should become a thirst, a yearning and a longing, something that comes from deep within your soul and heart. That will always keep you on the right track – you will never fail then, you will not get deluded.

You are on this journey anyway like most people without knowing it – for it is very much part of life, though most people don’t know that it is what life is about. You see, people live a delusional life and this delusion is very much part of life and consciousness in everyday living. And if you are not true in your seeking you will carry that delusion with you and only make it larger. And then it is not very far when you start to revel in your own self-grandeur, self-delusions. There the journey stops although in your delusion you believe you are on it! So it is a free country, it is a free world – you can live those delusions if you like! Many have had their journey stopped in this way – if the journey ever began, that is.

It is only very few who thread the needle. Do you want to go the whole way – do you want to thread the needle? Or carry on living your delusion, and live a life of falsehood however glamorous it may seem, however entertaining it may be? One who seeks the Truth is not seeking entertainment, he is not seeking pleasure, nor is he seeking displeasure. He and she are seeking to know the Truth and Truth alone, in all its completeness, knowing entertainment for what it is, knowing pleasure for what it is, knowing displeasure for what it is; finally shying away from neither nor losing oneself to either. Do you see? When you have this bias, which everyone does and is natural to life existence, when you tend to stick to one side it will always trip you, that very thing will trip you, deny you to know the whole Truth. So, if you want to go the whole way then this is it, this is the way; if you want something real then this is it, this is the way!

Of course for many they make do with little things of life. Even if they may seem grand and they are quite happy and satisfied in life with that, they do not have the capacity nor the integrity to seek the Real. So, fine! You will always find a large number in that way. Here we are wholly concerned with going the whole way. Otherwise it is not even worth living. In fact it is only then you truly live. Your soul must refuse to live in any other way. That is why in the Gîtâ, Krishna says, “Sarvadharmân parityajya mâmekaṃ œaraṇaṃ vraja”³– giving up all other dharmas, seek Me and Me alone, Arjuna! And you will have everything in the way it should be! And that’s the secret most people do not know. Then, “You will reach to My status,” says Krishna, “Mad bhâvam âgatâḥ,”⁴ and “All things shall be added unto thee,” as Christ says. All things will be added unto thee, unto you, in its correct perspective, in the right way as it should be, for you will know them for what they are in the light of the complete Truth. You will never live a life of delusions again, rather you will live life divine. That is the future but it requires an exceptional kind of integrity and commitment. And really, surely, would anyone want anything else? Would you want to eat the banana or have the skin? Would you want to have the mango or its skin? There you go!

There is a lovely Sufi story – we have these stories that come from great people in the past from all traditions, small stories but carrying deep meaning and significance. They are learning stories about human nature, human ambition, human temperament, the Real and the unreal, the intellect, the quality of intellect, the foolishness – everything is revealed through these stories. They are simple stories but they imply and signify and are indicative of something deeper. In India, like many other countries, there are these melas, fairs, festive gatherings of various kinds, the Kumbh mela being the largest in the world is of the spiritual kind. And these melas happen all over India at different times in different places: small localised versions, district level ones, state level ones or big ones that have truly become mega and global like the Kumbh mela, and Pushkar mela which initially was mainly a camel fair where camels were traded and has now become a more diverse event. When you travel through the country you find these melas, where festivities and trade happen side by side. It is a gathering where people from villages and towns, traders, artisans, potters, all sorts of craftsmen, blacksmiths, and tillers of the soil bring their produce wares, cattle and skills for barter, sale and service.

As the story goes, one man brings juicy ripe apples to the mela, offering them for free to everyone but nobody wants them. These apples are the real thing, life-nourishing apples, life-giving, life-sustaining apples, and he offers it for free – nobody wants it. Instead people are suspicious because he is giving them away free. And there is another man who has brought throw-away peels and through his cunning and marketing skills he sells these peels for their weight in gold. In the mela of this world this is how it is: the real life-giving thing has no value and is disregarded, while that which is of no use is prized and sought. So there is the fellow with the apples, the real thing that he is offering for free and nobody wants it – and there is the other who cunningly markets just the peels for their weight in gold.

Marketing. This is how the mela of the world is, more so today. You can market anything, you become great in the eyes of the world but not in the eyes of God. You accumulate wealth, power, position by hook or by crook and people say, ‘What a great man.’ Simple story, but the truth of life. So people prefer to buy emptiness, live a life of emptiness, and die in emptiness, leaving behind emptiness. Very few are those who seek the Real rather than the unreal, and fewer still who know the Real from the unreal. So you must seek the Real, you must have that in your mind, then you will not be a tourist – you will be a seeker. Then you can have the apple, banana, mango, the real things, not the discarded peel for which you have to pay, even so with your life. The stupidity of today’s world is that because you pay you think you are getting something of value. Some things of course cannot be priced, their value is beyond any pricing, they can only be given away for free to the deserving. So now there are some people offering enlightenment in few weeks for few thousand rupees – and if you want it quicker you just have to pay more. They may even give you a discount if it is off-season. How about that! What a farce!

My God! If it were not so pathetically stupid, I would cry, I would weep, I tell you. Really! And people believe this. Their ambitions, their desires are so great that in their stupidity they will believe anything. That is truly stupid, where is the intelligence? Obviously they are stupid to the extent that they do not know what this requires. For them it is just another commodity you pay for, it is another shop you go to where even the sacred is now a commodity for sale, what a world! No sanctity, no sacredness – it is all profane, nothing profound. I would rather not be part of that market, no way! And this is why years back I said I am not part of that supermarket, and I moved out. Krishnamurti did the same. There were all these arrangements around Him, the ‘Star of the East’ and all kinds of things being imagined by the Theosophical Society; one even wrote in his name claiming it was his writing, like Leadbeater, and so one day disgusted with the chimera he steps out and says, “I don’t want to be part of this. I disband everything.” Yes, because He has the Real in him.

If you seek the Real, if you have the sincerity and commitment, you will find someone who is real to guide you and in time you will find the Real. And even if you do not find it outside, seek it in yourself: the Truth is also in you, waiting to manifest. But you have to cross your mind and the mind can trip you at any time. It will bring up things that appeal to you and convince you of their efficacy and importance – ‘this is it’. And before you know it you are living another delusion. You would be wise to question anything and everything that is appealing to the mind on this journey. To live the True and the Real is the way. Discard the superficial and the unreal. But to do that you must develop the faculty to recognise the difference.

Another story. There was a very famous hatha yogi with great powers, siddhis, so to speak but devoid of true realisation and consciousness, called Changdev. He had a big ego. Gyaneshwar was much younger to him in age, mere boy compared to him, and yet he had to submit himself eventually to him, giving up his haughtiness to finally see the Real. This hatha yogi Changdev was very famous because of his much advertised powers. Even though this may be true I will tell you powers of the kind he had are of no significance in the face of the Truth. He had supposedly lived for one thousand years. He had the power to bypass death every time it visited. No wonder he was famous, I can imagine. People with nothing better to do would flock to him in the lakhs and millions leave alone thousands. In today’s times that is why most people go to Rishikesh. They want these kinds of things, find some modern Changdev in the various babas that they visit with their claim to stardom, samadhis and siddhi powers. Every time the moment of death came Changdev would bypass it. You can do that, it can be done for however long through a special technique known to hatha yogis, but it is a power, a siddhi, not the higher Truth – to have them does not necessarily mean that one has the supreme Truth and realisation. And for a vehicle, as the story goes, he used to ride a tiger. He had thousands of disciples – obviously! Waiting impatiently, I am sure, to attain to such powers as ‘kṛipâ’, handouts by him, and to ride one themselves. I am sure you can easily imagine this of today’s times. It must be quite appealing to the immature ego. Such immaturity and stupidity is rampant today in both the seekers and in the ones who lay claim to such things. Such kinds of things will attract so many people. Have you never heard of these things? In India there is no dearth of such people. We have had for a long time many such babas with all sorts of tall fraudulent claims, drama and paraphernalia, and their gullible ingratiating delusional cohorts and so-called disciples. Changdev at least had something maybe, for he is not around to demonstrate, but most of those going around today boasting such claims are fraudsters.

So Changdev, he was living for a long time; maybe it is a little difficult for you to accept that he could live for a thousand years and maybe he didn’t, not for that long anyway, but long enough to merit debate. In Yoga there are many things possible that may seem impossible to the rational mind. There are people in the hatha yoga tradition who can even transmigrate – not reincarnate, transmigrate: move from one body to another. It is possible, it has been done. Even the great Adi Shankaracharya is supposed to have done it into a dead king’s body for a period to gain some kinds of experiences. There may be people even now who may be able to do it – now you people are getting very interested, yes?

Yes, but this is not the Truth, this is nothing in front of the Truth, that is what I am trying to say. This is not just a story, there is a truth here. These things are possible to whatever extent, they do exist. But these are siddhis, powers that one may gain access to along the way, and having these things and becoming a great Guru because of them does not mean the Truth is known. This is insignificant before that which is the Truth in all its comprehensiveness. Changdev did not have the supreme realisation even though he was such a great Guru in the eyes of the people, only because he had a large number of disciples which may have acted as fodder to further increase his self-impression, self-delusion and ego making him unbearable. People most likely were impressed only because of the siddhis, the powers he had and not because he knew the supreme Truth, the full Truth and therefore attained to supreme enlightenment and illumination, or even was on the way to it. Along the way in your journey and sadhana you may come upon such things, acquire these things, but you can get waylaid if you get egoistic about them and believe that you have arrived at the highest, that is what I am saying – then you enter into a greater delusion. Threading the needle of supreme enlightenment is not easy, it can get more difficult as you go further in your journey of self-discovery. When you are ‘ordinary’, as opposed to Changdev, so to speak, you do not have these kinds of things to divert you or delude you; you have other kinds though less problematic and harmless comparatively, delusions nonetheless that need to be understood and cleared even if little in comparison. But as you advance the delusions of the ego grow too, of which you need to be wary. So supposedly, a thousand disciples he had and he used to ride a tiger – and needless to say, he had a very big ego.

X: Ego?

Yes of course, what else? Would you not have a big ego when you believe you could live for as long as you want in a single life and have so many disciples? Would you not have an ego – unless you were enlightened and knew the place of these things you would have a very big ego – and if you could ride a tiger too, a truly insufferable one! So, imagine somebody like Changdev today – thank God he is not around – it would be so much more delusional, what with the collective frenzy and sensationalisms of today’s masses. You do not require much to have delusions of self-grandeur anyway in today’s times, more so for the self-seeking, self-aggrandising nature of the self-delusional masses of today. (Uproarious laughter) For example, you have a very popular baba nicknamed ‘mahayogi’ by those who have no idea what it means, right here as our not so distant neighbour with the plastic lighted palm tree supposedly specially imported from Japan, here in the Himalaya with all its natural beauty of wild and green environment. How stupid can one be? And that too after having cut down and cleared out everything that was green and natural, and made the place devoid of even a blade of grass, replacing it with a jungle of concrete, created by looting and quarrying sand rapaciously from the Ganga banks, right under the noses of the colluding officials. And he supposedly does this samadhi and that samadhi, and in the meanwhile makes money converting black money into white for the influential and the powerful with his ‘cut’ guaranteed. This he uses to destroy the environment, cheered on by the hysterically impressed asinine masses and the drooling contractors.

But in Changdev’s time there was a real one. He was a real mahayogi by the name Gyandev and Gyaneshwar. He was only a sixteen-year-old boy when the first encounter with Changdev happened. In the state of Maharashtra He is considered their supreme saint who wrote a commentary on the Gîtâ called Gyaneshwari, the most sacred commentary to the people of Maharashtra. Almost every Marathi speaking family in Maharashtra will have a copy of Gyaneshwari in their home. It is their sacred book. So when Changdev came to hear about the popularity of Gyandev who was a mere boy he became very agitated; his ego was riled and competition rose in him like a poisonous snake. He wanted to know who this boy was and wanted to check Him out with his own so-called greatness. They were three brothers and one sister – Nivritti, Gyandev, Sopan and Muktabai who was the youngest; they were all very advanced in Yoga. Gyaneshwar was truly very special from birth, as all of them were, him especially. From His very birth he was manifesting who he truly was. And so of course when Changdev hears of Him he is upset, sensing competition to his greatness. ‘Who is this young boy, who is this upstart, who does he think he is? Why are people giving so much importance to a young boy? He cannot be any match to me. I am going to show him what I am and put him down. Look at me, I have such powers and all this paraphernalia around me to showcase my powers and who I am. What does this boy have? Nothing! I will expose him for what he is – nothing, and the people will all flock to me.’ So he comes to confront Gyaneshwar riding a tiger with thousand cohorts to put him to the test. Needless to say he ends up failing the test and competition and realises the true greatness of Gyandev and becomes his disciple.

There was goodness in him so he accepts true greatness when he sees it putting aside his ego. But not all are like him, so they never will arrive at the Truth. He will, for even though he did have some achievement he realised where he had gotten diverted and accepted in all humility the guidance from someone who was a mere boy in body but truly great in His realisation. As an example, somebody like Changdev has not arrived at the supreme Truth but may acquire through sadhana, through meditation, certain siddhis and powers, and the power of attracting large numbers of people, but these are actually things that could delude you preventing you to carry on further to the fullest enlightenment. That is why true Gurus will caution you about these things, to not make them the objective of one’s sadhana, rather if they were to come in the natural course of sadhana to be seen as a mere by-product and not the end of sadhana and something to be flaunted, for they can become an obstacle and a hindrance in getting to the supreme Truth.

There were some people who came to Sri Ramakrishna, who had acquired certain siddhis, powers, which he took away from them because their journey had stopped. For these had become their entire focus and occupation preventing them to continue with their sadhana to reach the supreme Truth, spending all their time playing around with them. And they thanked Him for that. This is with siddhis. But even before them there are many things in your temperament that will become obstacles. Whatever they may be – your obsessions, your fears, your anxieties – you have to face these things and know them for what they are, recognise them for what they are. That which needs to be discarded needs to be discarded, kept out in the transforming process, in the seeking of the Truth. That is why I do not appreciate teachers who attract people with all kinds of temptations, adding to their delusions. They do them a disfavour. Today the sole objective of many modern so-called gurus seems to be all about accumulating crowds and becoming famous.

The man who knows and a true traveller of this journey does not care for fame or infamy; he cares only for the Truth and expects the same of everyone that comes to him and from those who seek of him.

So I just want to say that along the way there will be many things that may come up, things that may delude you. You have to be very watchful and objective with these things and not allow for anything to stop you, but go the whole way until you reach. You will be put to the test, all the time, like those who have gone before you. By these stories you know that it requires that kind of hard work. And that is my intention – to let you know. Then it is for you to make those choices, it is for you to develop them. And sometimes you may get ‘something’ and in your hurry you may get carried away and start claiming for yourself the heavens. That is why I said these things hide under any garb. It is amazing what is there, and it is all there in our consciousness. That is why integrity and love of the Truth and the Real is the parameter, the measure by which one should go. That will guide you through the abysses, caverns, tunnels and pitfalls of the journey and then it is very easy, very simple, once you have the hang of how to apply. Once you have understood this there is no fear, there should not be either: there is no need for fear. This Truth is our birth right, our heritage – this is what we are – this is our legacy. But there are many things clouding it, covering it and that is what you have to clear up, clean up and see things for what they are. The deluding cover is also a truth, a reality through which you have to pass through, wade through. What should be accepted, what should not be accepted; what is really the nature of the thing that you are facing, and what is only a projection or pretending to be a truth – this is the way.

Yes, there is a lot you will face on the journey and that is why this love for the Truth, this kind of commitment and love for integrity – this is the saving grace. And that is why prayer is a continuous requirement: ‘Guide me to the Truth, guide me to the Truth, and even if I were to be diverted, distracted and disturbed, guide me back to the Truth.’ These may seem very simple things but they help greatly. They may not be very ego-appealing for today’s so-called sophisticated tourists who would say, ‘What prayer? Prayer to whom? I am it!’ These are the kind of teachings nowadays: ‘You are it, you were always it,’ and ‘This is it’ and so on – because they do not know the kind of things one may face for a complete transformation.

Of course these statements are true in a way: ‘I am It, you are It.’ Yes, but what is this you, what is this It? And to find that It what will you have to face? You should be able to see the smoke from the fire. These statements can be childish and misleading if not backed up with realism, a realistic understanding of the way, the journey and sadhana and the difficulties and complications one would end up facing. One has to be mature about all this and maturity also grows and develops as one goes along, through satsang and working with oneself: inside, outside, individually, collectively. And of course, this would bring the biggest downfall – ‘I want to be a Guru.’ This can be the biggest obstacle, then already you are lost even before you begin! This is how it is today, and certain people have started to propagate this nonsense: ‘You are it, you are enlightened from birth,’ and so on… Really? Then the whole world is enlightened and there is nothing more to be done!

Okay, I say this is poetry – fine; I like poetry but there is prose too. Life is not just poetry, life is prose also. Prose is the practical side, the reality side. It is nice to have poetry but one does not live only the poetry; anyway one has to walk through the prose of life to arrive at poetry. But nobody wants the prose. Because poetry is appealing while prose is all the hard works and facts, the reality and the practicality of life with its bumps and groans, ups and downs, and things really confronting to the ego. Poetry is dream while prose is hard reality. I only talk about the prose – poetry will happen by itself! And that is why I am not very popular… I do not want to be popular because that is not what I am here for. If I had to be popular I would be there in the marketplace promoting myself. I refused! Years back in Mumbai I had talked about the supermarket of enlightenment of which I had no intention to be part.

Love the Truth, love God, it is so simple – and yet, there is a whole practical side to it. There is all that hard work, there is all that commitment and integrity. And it is a journey wherein you may have occasional poetry now and then as you go along, but there is a lot of prose you have to pass through, breathe through, work your way through – hard prose. And that too is wonderful because you appreciate something truly only when you have worked for it. There is never any true appreciation for things that come without any hard work. Anyway it is childish to believe something of such gravity and profundity can be had at whim. Modern general mindset I presume. That is because of a lack of depth. When you have depth you know what it means and therefore what it entails. You should be proud of yourself that you can understand this and work for it. That is when there is something good in your soul, your soul is made of some mettle. Do not be petty souls.

The bhakti scriptures say that ultimately a point is reached in one’s sadhana when one says, “I do not care whether You appear to me or not, whether I find the Truth or not, just let me continue to have the opportunity to seek and love You.” You have arrived at the most beautiful thing then. Nothing will be unavailable to you, and yet you seek nothing but just to love. It is the highest and purest form of love, devotion and surrender. How small, petty and ridiculous people are making it out to be. Even the Buddha would groan that they call it enlightenment. I would say anybody who is seeking for enlightenment, if they want to know what it is, I would ask them to go to Ajanta and Ellora and sit quietly and face the Buddha’s image in stone that has been sculpted by such master artists, and to just look at Buddha’s face! Then you may have some idea as to what enlightenment is. And I tell you they have managed it because the Buddha inspired such great artistry in these people to create, even in stone, his presence.

X: Can you explain it again, please?

There are two places called Ajanta and Ellora in the state of Maharashtra where there are many caves. They were discovered by a British hunting party by chance while out horseback hunting in the nineteenth century, almost completely concealed by overgrown vegetation. Much earlier the Chinese Buddhist travellers Hiuen Tsang and Fa Hien mention them in their travel documents. Such caves and cliffs showcasing Buddha’s figure, life and enlightenment have been found elsewhere too, not only in India, like the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan. Sadly and shockingly they were more recently in the news for all the wrong reasons as they were completely destroyed by Islamic zealots. They have been discovered even in China with such sublime images in stone: truly awe-inspiring and magnificent. This art followed the Buddha’s message, life and enlightenment from India into Tibet, from Tibet to China, from China to Korea, and from Korea to Japan. Ajanta is a place with many caves wholly dedicated to the Buddha, depicting his life and enlightenment with imposing sublime figures of Buddha in meditation, and others including singing minstrels called gandharvas.

In Ellora, besides the many caves dedicated to both Buddhist and Jaina traditions there is another great marvel in the form of a rock-cut Kailash temple dedicated to Lord Shiva. It is considered to be one of the grandest monolithic excavation and architectural marvels in the world. The craftsmen worked and excavated the cliff from top downward, in this way hewing out the temple as one solid piece. It is truly incredible, the sheer genius of the craftsmanship and the immensity of the labour involved – for all the chiselling was done by hand. Yes, a huge cliff of solid rock has been excavated and carved into a temple by working from the top, cutting and chiselling through the solid rock by hand – truly a marvel. It is truly one of a kind, truly incredible! You just have to see it, it is amazing how these artists through their marvellous artistic endeavour recreated His presence and his enlightenment and captured it so captivatingly, so realistically, on the sculptural façade of stone. Just sit quietly there looking at the serene face of the Buddha figure and you will get an inkling and understanding of what enlightenment is, you may even have horripilation.

While travelling around in the past we always used to stop there and camp. India is a great place for these things. It is a world heritage now. Aurangabad is the nearest city from where you can reach these caves by road. It is a very lovely area where there are caves with wonderful paintings as well. Of course much of the paintings got damaged over the years by people and their penchant for graffiti before the government could even start protecting them. But these figures of the Buddha and all the art is really amazing. How the artists hundreds of years after the passing away of the Buddha managed to capture so eloquently in stone the serenity of his enlightenment is nothing short of a marvel. It is to Buddha’s credit that they could feel him and bring his presence into stone.

Nowadays people talk about enlightenment as if it is bhelpuri, or some such traditional Indian fast food that one goes to the chatwalla to buy at leisure and whim. I am sure in Brazil too you must have your own fast food where the vendors come with their carts and trolleys filled with the local fast food fare. In India we have a great culture of fast food, truly amazing! Today people are taking enlightenment like this, bhelpuri! You come and stop by some fellow who is selling it, enjoy it and then pass on.

India is a wonderful place. If you travel through the country you get a sense and feel of something very special in this soil, in its air, in its waters. So there are many caves like these all over the country with carvings and paintings of different traditions. And Ajanta-Ellora like many other sites were also monasteries, so there were chambers with stone platforms for sitting and sleeping for the inmate monks, besides halls for meditation, gatherings and study, surrounded by all this wonderful presence and art. There are many such places like them all over India – especially of Jaina and Buddhist tradition – all the way up north to Leh, Ladakh; to the extreme south of the country and from the eastern shore to the western shore.

Buddha’s enlightenment inspired so many, that is what I am trying to say. And in those days when there was no internet, there was not so much commutation, it was the power of His enlightenment, it was the Truth inherent in his enlightenment that brought people to him in large numbers and carried his message far and wide across nations. At that time there were two very great men moving around in India, walking on this sacred soil – Mahavira, the twenty-fourth Tirthankara, and Buddha, the Compassionate One. But there is something about the Buddha that inspired so much more personal attraction for many, not only in his times but even today. Mahavira was very austere in his approach, very austere, and like the Buddha a very great person.

And now you have X babas, Y babas and the lot who spend all the time wheeling and dealing, in constant competition with each other for self-promotion and pelf through marketing and advertisements, vying for patronage especially amongst the rich and the powerful, and in that they see their life’s goal and fulfilment. Those who would ever want them, they are welcome!

With the kind of depth you seek, with that much depth you will find. So develop depth in you, depth of your being, depth of your soul – let it not be shallow and superficial. And for that you have to work, work with yourself. That is why I am saying your being must develop, you must grow as you travel. It is not panipuri or bhelpuri, it is not kulfi or Baskin & Robbins – it is the longing of the soul for itself. That is why you must seek deeply in yourself, you must yearn and long from your soul and that will guide you. Otherwise there is enough, especially in today’s times to be misguided and misled. But then it is a journey and many may end up deluded and pass through illusions and misleadings and get sidetracked, but like I said, if there is some sincerity in you that is the saving grace; you will get there; you will get the course correction; you will find the necessary help, the necessary sangha, the required dhamma, and the right Guide and Master. Therefore Buddha says, “Buddhaṃ œaraṇaṃ gachchâmi”: take refuge in the Buddha, the awakened one, the Guru, the Guide, walk with him the way. “Sanghaṃ œaraṇaṃ gachchâmi” and therefore take shelter, take refuge in the required sangha. “Dhammam œaraṇaṃ gachchâmi” and therefore take shelter, refuge in the required teaching, in the required guiding.

But it is in the nature of their consciousness, now in modern times, that people do not comprehend and understand the depth of the Buddha. It is a sorry thing. I was just reading a book by some American about Buddha’s time and life, and it is so superficial. He speaks about the Buddha as if he was in some kind of political competition with Mahavira. How preposterously stupid can one be? It is the shallowness of their perception because of their consciousness that makes them reduce the Buddha into someone like themselves. So they are not qualified to know Him. And so rests the case. What can anyone do? – they have a long way yet to go. In the meanwhile they will seek according to their level and judge according to that, believing they are making a fair judgment of one like the Buddha. This is how it is, and in modern times more so – the people are so full of themselves. And especially those who do not have faith and rely and lean more on their intellect and reason, their rationality, which then defeats the whole purpose especially as their reasoning is very shallow and superficial, and can never understand someone like the Buddha and his depth and the height of his realisation. Instead of trying to reach up to Him in faith so that they may truly comprehend him, his depth and enlightenment, they in their egoism reduce him to their own level, consider him in the same way as they would consider themselves and anyone else – with the same shallowness.

And that is why the unread, illiterate villager is much better off with his faith: instinctively, intuitively, he comes to the Truth, and feels and senses the Buddha. He may not be able to articulate what he feels, but he is far, far better! While these so-called authors become ‘experts’ with their superficial reasoning – it is really truly pathetic. They write in their egoistic self-delusion as if they have come to a great discovery and immediately make claims for it to be the truth, the true history of the Buddha. And you cannot do anything about it because you cannot convince them otherwise, this is how they see, this is what they believe. Then of course they print and publish it, and lo and behold it becomes a document.

That is why I said if you want to know and feel to some extent at least what the Buddha was and continues to be go to the caves and look at the sublime and serene face of the Buddha carved out of stone. And if you in your awe are quiet enough you will get a sense and feel of something that is so much more real than all this trash writing which is only the projections of the writer’s own mind and consciousness. One judges something, measures something, according to the measure of one’s own instrument of measurement – that is how it is. So you may be doing a disservice rather than justice because of the limitations and incapacities of the tools available to you, but you still measure because you feel to do so in your egoism. Your capacity is so shallow. You have tools to measure a shallow well and you are going about measuring the ocean. The stupidity of the ego is evident. In one’s: ‘Ah yeah, it is only this much,’ one little realises that it is not the measure of the thing being measured, it is a measure of you, your own shallowness. But because it is published in a book it is accepted as gospel by the masses most times without any analysis and scrutiny, leave alone experience. Modern education provides little training for such things and the collective consciousness of people at the moment is very superficial; it does not have the kind of profundity, the touch, the sense, which simple people naturally still have. Modern education in fact takes it away. It is the way it is now. It is so. That is why in the Gîtâ it says, “As you seek, so shall you find.” And I say: as deep as you are, that much depth you will seek, see and find.

Arya Vihar

20 May 2010